I recently watched a discussion between Roger Penrose and Jordan Peterson, which was really a question and answer session, with Peterson asking the questions and Penrose providing the answers. There was a third person involved as moderator, but I’ve forgotten his name and his interaction was minimal. It was mostly about consciousness, but also touched on quantum mechanics and Godel’s theorem.
I can’t remember the context, but (at point 1.06) Penrose trotted out the well-worn thought experiment of 2 people crossing a street in opposite directions, and somewhere, in some far-flung part of the cosmos, an armada of spaceships is departing for a journey to Earth. Now, according to Einstein’s theory of relativity, one of these ‘observers’ will 'say' the fleet left 100s of years in the past and the other will 'say', no, they're leaving 100s of years in the future.
Of course, my interpretation is considered ‘naïve’ and completely wrong by Penrose and every other physicist I know of.
Now, some thought experiments, like the famous EPR experiment, in combination with Bell’s Theorem, can be done in the real world, and was done after Einstein’s death and effectively proved Einstein wrong (on that particular point). Another example is John Wheeler’s delayed decision thought experiment for the double-slit experiment, which was also physically done after Wheeler’s death.
But this thought experiment is impossible to do, even in principle. My interpretation is that you have a clear contradiction, and where you have a contradiction there is usually something wrong with one or more of your premises. My proposed resolution is that what they 'perceive' is not reality, because the event is outside the cones-of-influence (past and future) of the observers.
But let’s take the thought experiment to its logical conclusion. Let’s say the observers record their deduced ‘time of departure’ with respect to their frame of reference, and it can be looked up centuries later when the fleet actually arrives on Earth. Now, when the fleet arrives, its trajectory through spacetime is within Earth’s past light cone. The fleet has its own time record of their journey and we know how far they’ve travelled. In fact, this is no different to the return leg of the famous twin paradox thought experiment. Now observers can apply relativistic corrections to the fleet’s recorded elapsed time, and deduce a time of departure based on Earth’s frame of reference. This will give a ‘time’ which I expect will fall somewhere between the 2 times recorded by the original observers.
Of course, this is still an impossible thought experiment because there is no way the 2 pedestrians could know when the fleet was departing. But if a fleet of spaceships did arrive on Earth from somewhere ‘far, far away’, we could calculate exactly when it left (ref. Earth time) and there would be no contradiction.
Footnote: I know that this stems from Einstein’s discovery that simultaneity varies according to an observer’s frame of reference, and there is an excellent video that explains the maths behind it. But here’s the thing: if the observer is equi-distant from the 2 signals in the same frame of reference you’ll get ‘true’ simultaneity (watch the video). On the other hand, an observer moving with respect to the sources will not see simultaneity. A little known fact is that you have to allow for length contraction as well as time dilation to get the right answer. But here’s another thing: on a cosmic scale, 2 observers can see 2 events in opposite sequence even if they’re not moving relative to each other. BUT, if the events have a causal relationship, then all observers see the same sequence, irrespective of relative motion. (Refer Addendum 2)*
Addendum 1: I’ve given this more thought, by having imaginary dialogue with a physicist, who would tell me that my ideas are inconsistent with relativity. Naturally, I would disagree with them. I would say it’s consistent with relativity, because, for the thought experiment to actually work would require instantaneous communication, which is as contradictory with relativity theory as one can get. For the 2 hypothetical observers to ‘know’ when the far-flung event took place would require them to observe it in their ‘now’, which is impossible. So my response is strictly a philosophical one: you can’t apply relativistic theory to this situation because the 'observation' would appear to 'violate' a tenet of relativity theory. And that’s because the event is outside the observers’ light cone. Am I missing something here?
*Addendum 2: I watched a video by Sabine Hossenfelder, who addresses the last sentence in the footnote of this post. She says, in fact, that 2 events that have a causal relationship in our frame of reference could appear ‘independently’ simultaneous to ‘different’ observers in another part of the Universe (watch the video). This is a variation on the thought experiment that I discuss. In practice, because there’s no possible causal relationship between the events and the far-off observers, they wouldn’t observe anything. And it doesn’t change the sequence of causal events.
But she’s arguing that there are a multitude of ‘nows’, in accordance with one of Einstein’s premises that all observers have the same validity. That may be correct, but why does it apply to events they can’t even observe? To be fair to Sabine, she does try to address this at the end of the video. I’ve long argued that different observers see a different ‘now’, even without relativity, but if they see a different sequence of events, at least one of them has to be wrong.
I want to emphasise that I don’t think Einstein’s theories of relativity are wrong, as some people do. My point is purely a philosophical one: if you have a multitude of perspectives with different versions of events, they can’t all be right. I’m simply arguing that there is an objective reality. A case in point is the twin paradox, where one twin’s clock does run slower, irrespective of what each twin ‘observes’. Mark John Fernee gives a synoptic exposition here. As he says: they each have their own ‘true time’, and one is always slower.
If you go far enough into the future, where the events in question fall within the observer’s past light cone, then a history can be observed. We do this with the Universe itself, right back to the CMBR, 380,000 years after the Big Bang, which is 13.8 billion years ago; both of which we claim to know with some confidence.
I still maintain my core point, stated explicitly in the title of this post, that, as a hypothetical, the thought experiment described is impossible to do, simply because the event can’t be observed.
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