Paul P. Mealing

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Wednesday 12 January 2022

Space and time: still a mystery after all this (time?)

How’s that for a self-referential title, hence the question mark and parentheses. It highlights the fact that time is an everyday phenomenon that literally runs our lives and yet it remains one of the great mysteries of the Universe, still debated among philosophers and scientists. You may think that space is less of a mystery, yet it sparks debate as well, even without Einstein’s revelation that they are cosmologically entwined thanks to the constant speed of light, c.


The problem is with how do we categorise space and time. Are they entities, parameters, dimensions, metrics, mathematical constructions? Perhaps all of the above. I think we can safely say they are not physical objects, yet they determine the relationships between objects everywhere in the Universe, including those that we can’t perceive. In fact, some scientists would argue that time and space are all about relationships and nothing else, which I’ll return to later.

 

But let’s start with one obvious question, which was raised by Kant and still persists today, thanks to Donald Hoffman (refer my last post), and that is: are time and space simply constructs of the mind? To quote Kant from Critique of Pure Reason:

 

But this space and this time, and with them all appearances, are not in themselves things; they are nothing but representations and cannot exist outside our minds.

 

The problem with this viewpoint is that it’s readily believed by almost everyone that space and time existed for billions of years before any ‘mind’ arose in the Universe.

 

Another contentious point is to whether space is an ‘entity’ that ‘expands’ and ‘stretches’ as the Universes itself expands (which is not disputed). Viktor T Toth, a renowned expert on physics on Quora, argues very strongly that it doesn’t and what we witness is the ‘distance’ actually increasing between objects. Proponents against space expanding (like Toth) argue that the space within atoms doesn’t expand. My response is that the size of atoms is determined almost solely by Planck’s constant (h), for which there is no evidence that it changes with the universe’s expansion.

 

However, space can travel faster than light, which suggests it is an entity. This is not disputable, and it’s why there is a horizon to the observable universe (refer my post on the End of the Universe). It’s also why we can incorporate ‘inflation’ into the birth of the Universe. It also has ramifications for black holes, which I’ll come to later. According to Einstein’s theories of relativity, both space and time can change according to the observer and these changes are measurable. In other words, space and time are not ‘fixed’ and they are affected by gravity. In fact, Einstein’s famous formula for his general theory has the curvature of spacetime on one side and the momentum-energy tensor on the other side. In other words, spacetime is curved by energy/matter. To quote John Wheeler: “Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve.”

 

During this discussion, I’ll cite people who know a lot more than me, like Viktor T Toth and John Wheeler (already cited), even if I disagree with them. But I’m going to attempt the impossible: I’m going to argue ideas that I consider obvious, though not incontrovertible, and I will probably fail, since they will include black holes, quantum mechanics and relativity, all of which I don’t have as much knowledge as I would like. But bear with me, because it’s mostly just logic.

 

I want to point out, right at the start, that I’m not one of those people who think Einstein got it wrong, quite the contrary, but I will point out the limitations of his theory based on what we can actually observe. And that’s a good place to start. A common diagram used to visualise Einstein’s formulation of spacetime is the light cone going both forwards and backwards in time. If you are an observer at the centre of this cone you can only be affected by events from the past within the past light cone, and you can only affect events in the future within the future light cone. Everything else outside these cones can’t be observed or have a causal relationship with you, and this is what I mean when I say relativity has limitations because they are real limitations. Sometimes people will tilt the cones over, indicating movement on your part and the horizontal plane, called the 'hypersurface present', also tilts over. However, there is no causal connection along that 'hypersurface' (through spacetime), according to what I’ve just described.



But this brings one to the subject of simultaneity, because Einstein showed with his famous train and platform thought experiment that 2 observers in different frames of reference could observe different sequences of the same event or perceive a difference in what occurs simultaneously.

 

This is a video that explains this better than I can, including the mathematics involved. Two things worth mentioning: the lecturer includes the spatial Lorenz contraction as well as the time dilation in his calculations; and the observer in the same frame of reference as the source of light sees zero difference and therefore observes a ‘true simultaneity’, though no one calls it that. I’ve long argued that the ‘other observer’ who doesn’t see the simultaneity, observes a difference in the Doppler effect caused by the ‘moving’ frame of reference with the moving light source, which should tell that observer that their observation is incorrect. The Doppler effect tells the observer if the light source is in their frame of reference or a frame of reference moving relative to them. It’s the Doppler effect that tells us that the Universe is expanding uniformly in all directions – it has no centre. It also tells us that we’re moving relative to the CMBR (cosmic microwave background radiation). In other words, we can measure our ‘velocity’ relative to the whole of spacetime, which, of course, is the Universe.

 

I’ve explained elsewhere how different observers in different parts of the Universe literally see different ‘now(s)’. They can literally see events occurring in opposite sequences, as a consequence of the finite speed of light, even without relativistic effects. However, if the events have a causal relationship, then all observers will see them in the same sequence. But this also means that my present will be seen in another observer’s past in their future, but it doesn’t mean the converse: that their future can be seen in my present. In fact, the relationship is reciprocal because I will see their past in my present. Observers can only see another observer’s past, no matter where they are. No observer can see another observer’s future. 

 

To give an example, a hypothetical observer in the Small Magellanic Cloud would see us 210,000 years ago when we were just emerging from Africa. Likewise, we would observe them 210,000 years ago (relative to us) if that was physically possible. Therefore, I don’t hold to the widely held view that we can theoretically see another observer’s future (due to the tilting 'hypersurface' plane in the light cone graphic), which infers that the future must already exist for everyone.

 

We know from the twin paradox thought experiment, as well as data from orbiting satellites, that clocks do literally run at different rates due to gravity as well as motion (your satnav depends on making corrections). Also, the famous muon observations arriving on the Earth’s surface. So both special and general theories of relativity change the rate of time, yet when the clocks are back in the same reference frame, they will show a different time duration while agreeing on where they are in the spacetime co-ordinates of the solar system. In other words, they don’t exist in different ‘now(s)’ just because they measured different durations to arrive at the same destination.

 

We know that different animals see time ‘flow’ at different rates. Many birds and insects see the world in slow-motion compared to us. This means they will see the hands of a clock literally moving slower while telling the same time. As Paul Davies has pointed out, if time was to slow down or speed up, you wouldn’t notice. But you can notice if you compare clocks in relativity. My point is that ‘now’ doesn’t change for these creatures even though they perceive time flowing at a different rate to us.

 

Well, I contend the same is true on a cosmic scale. If you were to go near the event horizon of a black hole, like in the movie, Interstellar, time would slow down for you compared to everyone back on Earth, even though you wouldn’t notice it. My argument is that this is no different, perceptually, to the bird observing time going slower. If you were to use the Doppler effect of receding galaxies as a clock, they would actually appear to be going faster (assuming you could take accurate enough measurements) compared to what Earthlings observed, and when you returned, you would agree on what ‘now’ is, compared to these distant cosmic clocks, though you would be considerably younger than your counterparts, if they were still alive, but more likely you would be meeting their subsequent generations.

 

And this is true even on Earth, where clocks run infinitesimally faster on mountaintops compared to sea level. But you don’t see an accumulated difference in ‘now’ over millions of years of the Earth’s rotation. All the while, the clocks are in the same ‘present’ while they are measuring different rates of time passing.

 

Carlo Rovelli gave a talk at the Royal Institute on ‘time’, where he argues that there is no ‘universal time’. But during the 15min question time (shown in another video), he contends that we arrive at a cosmic time for the Universe by taking an ‘average’. Brian Greene, in his book, The Fabric of the Universe, said something similar. However, if you lived on a planet orbiting near a black hole, surely the age of the Universe would be much less than what we observe, because any clock would be measuring time passing at a much slower rate than what we measure on Earth. Like the clocks on top of the mountains on Earth, I don’t believe hypothetical observers orbiting close to a black hole, perceive a ‘now’ that progressively gets out of step with the ‘now’ Earthlings observe over the course of their lives in the Universe, even if they measured a different age. In other words, I contend that you can have a universal now for the whole universe even if different clocks measure different rates of time dependent on where they are located.

 

Another video, which is an interview with loop quantum gravity theorist, Lee Smolin, describes time and space as being separate, which is both heretical and interesting. I think he has a point when you consider that, on a cosmic scale, time is finite and space is possibly infinite. Space could also be finite but perceptually infinite, like a hyperbolic universe, but, as Marcus du Sautoy pointed out in his book, What We Cannot Know, if the Universe is truly spatially infinite, we might never know. Smolin conjectures that space could be a consequence of ‘causal relationships’ between physical objects, which he doesn’t elaborate on, but which I find difficult to conceptualise. Causation is determined by the speed of light, otherwise everything would happen at once (Caspar Henderson, A New Map of Wonders). Smolin also contends that time might be an ‘emergent’ property (also without elaborating). The point is that causality requires time axiomatically. The thing about both space and time is that they are dimensions and if you add light (c) into the mix, you get a 4-dimensional universe that is fundamental for it to function in the way it does. With more than 3 spatial dimensions, planets would not have stable orbits, and if there was more than 1 dimension of time you would get time loops. If you have 2 spatial dimensions you would literally fall apart. Also, more than 3 spatial dimensions causes light waves to travel inconsistently. Our universe has the ideal time-space dimensional combination for its goldilocks existence.

 

In the same video, Smolin explains how the event horizon of a black hole breaks causality. This can be seen mathematically by Schwarzchild’s equation for a static black hole, which is described in this video. As the presenter explains, the +ve and -ve signs of the equation change when you cross the event horizon, which breaks causality. Causality is caused by the space dimension being less than the (negative) time dimension, and they are reversed on the other side of the event horizon (watch the video). It should be pointed out that Einstein was initially sceptical about the existence of black holes, even though Schwarzchild derived his equation from Einstein’s tensor.

 

There is a paradox inherent in a black hole (more than one, actually) but the most fundamental one is that time theoretically stops at the event horizon because time is related to light, and light can’t escape a black hole by definition. Viktor T Toth says that ‘the event horizon is always in an observer’s future’, so how can anyone (or anything) fall into a black hole? In a previous post, I speculated that maybe ‘space’ itself ‘falls’ into the black hole and that’s exactly what the guy in the video says. This is only possible because space can travel faster than light, as I described earlier.

 

This is already a lengthy post but I can’t talk about time without mentioning quantum mechanics. The same guy (who talks about black holes), gives a very good summary explanation of Richard Feynman’s path integral formulation of QED (quantum electrodynamics) in this video. It should be pointed out that Julian Schwinger’s ‘field’ interpretation called QFT (quantum field theory) is now more popular, if that’s the right word. In QFT, particles are seen as ‘excitations’ of a quantum field which is everywhere in the Universe. Someone on Quora even suggested that the word ‘particle’ should be erased from every physics text book, because they just don’t exist. Curiously, Feynman, in his book, QED, argued that everything is ‘particles’, but that was in the context of whether quantum phenomena are ‘waves’ or ‘particles’ in the Bohr tradition. I like Freeman Dyson’s view that it depends on whether an event is in an observer’s future or past, but I’m getting ahead of myself.

 

A good place to start with QM is Schrodinger’s equation. Carlo Rovelli, whom I cited earlier, in one of his books, is almost dismissive of Schrodinger’s equation and argues that the wave function (ψ) has misled us in our understanding of QM. But Schrodinger’s wave function is the basis of Feynman’s QED, so that’s where I’ll start.

 

Schrodinger’s equation encapsulates all the characteristics of QM which make it weird: superposition, entanglement and the uncertainty principle. The wave function also incorporates time-reversal symmetry, which is an inherent feature of QM. It doesn’t incorporate relativity, but I’ll come to that later.

 

The thing about Schrodinger’s equation, which is rarely mentioned, is that it describes the future – it makes predictions about where something will be in time. It was Dirac who derived the Lagrangian for QM, and Feynman adopted that for his ‘sum over histories’ or ‘path integral’ formulation, because it calculates the path of ‘least action’, which dictates what something does. (This also applies in a gravitational field, by the way, but I don’t want to confuse you.) Feynman used the proper time (τ) in place of t (that Schrodinger used) which automatically allows for special relativity (as explained in the video).

 

As someone on Quora once explained (David Moore, who is a Sydney based GP), a probability of ONE exists in the past, after the event. In the future, the probability is always less than one. This is what happens when the wave function ‘collapses’, for want of a better word, and neatly incorporates Freeman Dyson’s view that QM describes the future while classical physics describes the past. Feynman’s formulation has an infinity of possible future paths, that he integrates (hence the ‘integral’ in path integral) and also gives the path of least action. There is an element of teleology in this, but I don’t believe it makes the universe deterministic, though others disagree. On a large enough scale, as Schrodinger himself pointed out, you get a statistical deterministic effect, which he coined ‘statistico-deterministic’. But it can’t predict individual events, like when a radioactive isotope will decay, which is the crucial component in his eponymous cat thought experiment.

 

In regard to photons being the ‘particle’ nature of light, Mark John Fernee (physicist at Queensland University and regular Quora contributor) made the point in one of his posts, that if we didn’t observe light as photons, we would not be able to see many of the distant stars that we do. If light was purely a wave, then it would be so dispersed over the massive sphere of its influence it would be too faint to see. But, as a photon, it can arrive in just one point in space, where we happen to observe it.

 

I will leave the last word to Paul Davies. Even though he’s talking about QM in reference to black holes and Hawking radiation, the principle he describes is universal.

 

The very act of measurement breaks the time symmetry of quantum mechanics in a process sometimes described as the collapse of the wave function... the rewind button is destroyed as soon as that measurement is made.



Addendum: This video gives a more detailed and accurate explanation of black holes. It's more complex than my exposition would suggest.


4 comments:

citizenschallenge said...

¶2;" The problem is with how do we categorise space and time. Are they entities, parameters, dimensions, metrics, mathematical constructions? Perhaps all of the above. I think we can safely say they are not physical objects"

From the perspective of an Earth Centrist, seems to me, it's a pretty puzzle we have painted for ourselves. Isn't it?

¶2;" The problem is with how do we categorise space and time. Are they entities, parameters, dimensions, metrics, mathematical constructions? Perhaps all of the above. I think we can safely say they are not physical objects"

From the perspective of an Earth Centrist, seems to me, it's a pretty puzzle we have painted for ourselves. Isn't it?

¶2;" ...are time and space simply constructs of the mind?"

What I read in those first few paragraphs, is the human ego demanding* that the Universe/Reality/Earth needs to justify itself.
Yes, demanding that reality, justify reality's very reality, to our self-important minds. (to me, Abrahamic Thinking writ large, more religion than science.)

> It is our "conceptions" (of reality) that are constructs of the mind ! Why is that detail so easily overlooked by the professional thinkers?

Brings me back to the matter of appreciating (or not) the fundamental Human Mindscape(s) ~ Physical Reality divide.
... and it revisits the matter of getting lost within our own genus.

I mean, to an Earth Centrist the audacity of these types of conceptions is astounding.
In front of our noses is the geological and biological and astrophysical evidence that makes it as certain as certain can be that we humans (and our expectations), wouldn't be existing had not physical reality been busy for eons upon eons, being very real indeed, and creating the folds, around folds of cumulative harmonic complexity flowing down the cascade of time, that eventually created this moment we have been experiencing, and us, as physical reality continues flowing forward.

No matter what we think or do.

> Besides, there's another aspect to this, what about individual humans dealing with the challenging circumstances of today's world. What does this Hoffmanian projection, of reducing reality to infinitesimal geometries offer in understanding our individual lives and behaviors and interactions?

When it comes to facing the real world sweeping down on us - what does it have to offer individuals?

Paul P. Mealing said...

Hi Peter,

You realise I address that very issue in the next 3 paragraphs, before I get into the 'meat' of the topic.

Regards, Paul.

citizenschallenge said...

I did read as far as your light cone diagram and saw this:

¶5 The problem with this viewpoint is that it’s readily believed by almost everyone that space and time existed for billions of years before any ‘mind’ arose in the Universe.

Now I've done my best to read the rest of your article, and make no bones about only following the vague outlines, since I don't have the kind of disciplined mathematical or philosophical education to grasp the math and details.

Still, it seems to me it seems like ¶5 is along the lines of lip service. Acknowledging the point, but never allowing that point to soak in, before we're back to expecting solid answers for things, for which perhaps solid answers are simply impossible.

You mention Freeman Dyson, he's my poster child for the danger and damage I see in getting lost within one's own genus.

On the one hand he was a foremost physicist when it came to the ultra tiny, with huge accomplishments under his belt - yet Dyson never could grasp simple Earth Sciences, that is the Macroscopic Physics of Earth's Heat and Moisture Distribution Engine, (because of his emotional state, political bent, old man's vanity? Who knows.) - Dyson become a foremost spokesman for climate science denial (yes, denial), by creatively embellishing all the middling details we still don't know for certain - then ignoring all the fundamentals that are known with certainty. Climate fundamental that do indeed tell us all we needed to know about the dangers of disregarding Anthropogenic Global Warming and how that was going to play out within this biosphere that's driven by Earth's climate regime, and that our society is dependent on.

---

In the end, all that effort still unfolds in a mindset that doesn't explicitly acknowledge the basic fundamental:
It is our "conceptions" (of reality) that are the constructs of our minds - reality is what it is, always has been, always will be, no matter who's observing, or not observing.

And I'm back to my question of, Why is that detail so easily overlooked by the professional thinkers, who seem more interested in embellishing the mystery, then arriving at useful conclusions that can impact people's thinking and lives.

Thank you for putting up with me.

Paul P. Mealing said...

One of the things I’ve learned is that you never agree 100% with someone. Having said that, I’m not sure that Dyson was ever a ‘climate-change denier’. On the few occasions I heard him talk about it, he never claimed it wasn’t happening; instead, he argued that we should be modifying infrastructure to accommodate it. In the early days, like a decade or more ago, the consensus was that it was ‘real’ but predicting its severity and timeline was still relatively uncertain. Personally, I think if you allow for the pessimistic scenario, you have the optimistic scenario covered. I say that based on a career in risk-management in the engineering sector.

I never heard Dyson say that you can’t measure 1 degree C temperature rise globally (as one Nobel Prize winner said), and he never said that the NASA data was ‘fake news’ or that climate change was a ‘religion’. So I don’t put him in the same category as people who have said those things. Maybe you know otherwise; if so, let me know.

Dyson was actually a very humble person, in my view, but he wasn’t afraid to express unpopular views, so I disagree with your assessment.

I don’t see that comment as ‘lip service’ – I see it as a philosophical position based on what we know. The point is (which is not made in that post) is that without sentient beings, like us, the Universe would have no meaning at all. I expect that’s the difference in our respective philosophical positions.

To quote John Wheeler: “The universe gives birth to consciousness, and consciousness gives meaning to the universe.”

If you don’t agree with that, that’s fair enough, but, personally, it’s the difference between the Universe being something or nothing.